Entry 009, Rhetorical tricks

Moving the goalposts

Also known as: Shifting the goalposts, 'That doesn't count', Raising the bar

Demanding evidence, then changing the demand the moment it is met, so no proof ever counts and the original claim never has to budge.

Takes a second look

Spot it

  • Someone asks for one example; when it arrives, it suddenly needs to be a different kind of example.
  • The standard of proof rises every round, but the claim being defended never changes.
  • Every reply begins with "that doesn’t count, because…".
  • The person never says what evidence would actually convince them.
  • Meeting the demand earns no credit; the conversation simply restarts.

How it works

You are asked for proof. You bring it. Then the rules change: that study is too old, that outlet is biased, that example is too small, too big, from the wrong country. You bring another one. The rules change again. The football metaphor is exact: you kicked the ball where the goal was, and the goal has quietly walked ten metres to the left.

The trick is not in any single objection. Each one can sound reasonable on its own; asking who funded a study is a fair question. The trick is the sequence: the standard of proof climbs every round, while the claim being defended never moves an inch. Whatever you deliver, “that doesn’t count” is already loaded.

It is the house style of conspiracy debates, usually arriving alongside just asking questions. No photo of the Earth from space counts (CGI), no pilot’s testimony counts (paid), no personal flight to Antarctica counts (you were lied to). The structure guarantees the believer can never lose, which is exactly why no evidence ever settles it. In politics the everyday version is “name one thing they have done”, followed by a list of reasons each thing you name does not qualify. A close cousin is the “no true Scotsman” move, where the category itself gets redrawn so the counter-example cannot belong: “no real supporter would do that”.

Example

@open_city_now, 5h Name ONE hospital this government actually built. Just one. I’ll wait.

@nurse_jo_writes, 4h The new regional hospital in the south. Opened last spring, 400 beds.

@open_city_now, 4h That was EU money, so it doesn’t count. Name one they paid for themselves.

@nurse_jo_writes, 3h The children’s wing in the capital. National budget, opened in 2023.

@open_city_now, 3h A wing is not a hospital. And the capital doesn’t count, I meant the countryside.

Watch the finish line: it moved three times in ten minutes, and the person moving it never once said what would satisfy them. Whether the government’s record on hospitals is good or bad is a real question. It just cannot be answered inside a game you are not allowed to win.

Why it works on you

  • Each objection sounds fair. “Who paid for it?” and “is that representative?” are good questions in isolation. You answer them one at a time and never step back to see that the questions themselves are the trick.
  • You want to win. Every new demand feels like one more hoop, and you are already running, so you jump. The Gish gallop exploits the same reflex with volume instead of height.
  • It confirms what they already think. For the person moving the posts, every rejected example is further proof that no good evidence exists: confirmation bias with a scoreboard.

What to do

When someone does it to you: fix the finish line before you run. “What exactly would convince you?” If they name it, deliver it and stop. If they will not name it, say so out loud and step away. You are not losing the argument; there never was one.

When you catch yourself doing it: notice the moment “that doesn’t count” forms in your head. Ask whether you would have accepted the same evidence yesterday. If a counter-example genuinely does not fit, say what would fit, out loud, before you look at the next one.

In a comment section: quote the original demand next to the new one. Readers can see the goal moving; the mover usually cannot. Link this page instead of playing round four.

Don’t confuse it with

  • Raising your standards honestly. If the first example you were given turned out to be fake, it is fair to ask for a better one: once, and while saying why.
  • Asking follow-up questions about a source is normal. It becomes goalpost-moving when the answers never earn any credit.

Reply kit

Calm, copy-pasteable replies for when you meet this under a post. Link the technique, not the accusation.

  • I gave you the example you asked for, and now the rule has changed. Before I look for another one: what would actually convince you? (This pattern has a name: https://manipedia.eu/en/moving-the-goalposts)

  • Happy to keep going, but let's fix the finish line first, otherwise we'll be here all night. What evidence would count? https://manipedia.eu/en/moving-the-goalposts

  • This is called moving the goalposts: proof was asked for, delivered, then redefined. Here's how it works and why it feels so frustrating: https://manipedia.eu/en/moving-the-goalposts

We know not every reply sounds natural as a comment, so feel free to put it in your own words. They are here to help, above all older friends and relatives, who often know these tricks less well and so are frequent targets. Reaching them is one of this site’s most important goals.

Sources & further reading

  1. Moving the goalposts (Wikipedia)
  2. No true Scotsman (Wikipedia)
  3. move the goalposts (Oxford Learner’s Dictionaries)